If they don’t want us around, then we need to not be there. From everything I’ve ever heard, seen and read about it, the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival sounds like a lot of fun. I’d love to go. I know of several mtfs who have gone to MWMF and flown “under the radar” all stealth and everything and see that as validation of their transition. But if they don’t want XY chromos or mtf or wbt at their function, then I think that we need to accept and respect that. Period.
Just accept it. No complaining transplaining. Let go of your need for validation. Let go of your programmed sense of entitlement to access women-only spaces. Let go of your ego-pride injury for being excluded. We are not wanted there.
Five days out of the year is all they are asking. Give it a rest already. I am embarrassed that we are even having this discussion. If the event organizer’s decided we were allowed in, then that would be nice. If not, no big deal. Woman born woman’s spaces are important, and I accept that. I have made a very deliberate effort to understand the reasoning for this and I empathize with it.
There is a hell of a lot of social injustice going on in the world right now. I submit that there are far more urgent directions to spend energy on, like say, I don’t know, how about the fact that any woman who wears pants in Sudan can be whipped and or jailed for it. (It was the first random injustice that popped into my head.)
This sort of trans-activism is in itself a privilege. Trans-exclusion in wbw recreational spaces is so not an activist issue to me. Seriously. Let’s get our priorities straightened out. It’s not about us.
The whole idea of Camp Trans lingering (more like stalking) near Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival so they can cry and complain and raise consciousness about the terrible (omg!) exclusion of transsexuals from the fest immediately brings to my mind only one thing:
Unwanted penetration.
Flying in from the planet RadFem and enjoying reading your blog.
This post especially. It’s the only time I’ve ever seen a transwoman say what you’re saying here. It gives me hope for real dialogue. And I know it took some work to get to this place, so I appreciate that, too. What you’re describing is exactly what I feel as a white person when a black person tells me to shove off — I know it’s time to shove off. And what I feel when white people won’t do it. But I had to teach myself all about that. My early reaction in life was to get huffy, to explain myself, to be defensive and find something wrong with the argument or the person, to make myself out to be the exception, to get mad, etc. You know the drill. It took real practice to get over all that and as you say: Just accept it. No complaining. Let go of your need for validation. Let go of your programmed sense of entitlement to [other people's] spaces. Let go of your ego-pride injury for being excluded. We are not wanted there.
So, I appreciate that you’ve come to this place and that you have the courage and the honesty to write about it. Not an easy thing at all. Opens the possibility that a real conversation can happen.
“Opens the possibility that a real conversation can happen.”
I would very much like that. Thanks for stopping by.
Question: wouldn’t it be more like a white person telling a black person to shove off?
Plastic Girl remarks. What is this question? You are asking for energy, for attention from a radfem, for an answer you could easily come up with yourself, with a little due diligence.
Your question contains within it a hidden premise or an assumption.
White people who tell black people to shove off are mean, bad, discriminating, whatever.
But, is it wrong for a WAB to tell a BAB to shove off, under the right settings? No, it isn’t.
Is it wrong for a BAB to tell a WAB to shove off, under the right settings? No, it isn’t.
Is it wrong for a WBW to tell a WBT to shove off, under the right settings? No it isn’t.
Is a WBW telling a WBT to shove off, even comparable to the other underlying premise hidden in your qestion? Which is, white on black discrimination is racism.
A WBW asserting her WBW space, is not a racist for excluding a WBT. Simple! Easy! You could have done the math in your head, but you wanted Corvid to come back out of planet radfem to do your thinking for you. I am 99% sure you are a dude with a dick and a white one, too!
Corvid can certainly answer you if she feels like it, but I can’t see why someone who is as slow and easy to see through as you, would be worth it to a rf.
1. The assumption inherent in Corvid’s claim: “What you’re describing is exactly what I feel as a white person when a black person tells me to shove off — I know it’s time to shove off.” was that a person without (in this case racial) privilege who tells someone with privilege to shove off is warranted. So I’m asking why she uses this as an analogy for WBT and WBW, because it implies that WBT have privilege over WBW, when the opposite is true.
In other words, the ‘underlying premise’ was not mine, but Corvid’s.
3. I’m a dude, but without a dick and Asian. So much for the 99%.
Plastic Girl remarks: I am not infallible but I will tell you what. I know that these days they are teaching people that we whites are pretty much to blame for all that is wrong in this world and that we are the master oppressor class. There is a lot of truth to that, for sure. I see this on youtube comments where everyone calls each other a racist for having any negative viewpoint of any protected minority or ethnic group. You scanned as one of those the instant you wanted to compare the trans exclusion issue to blacks telling whites to shove off, and we shove off because we are horrible vs whites telling blacks to shove off, which means we are racist. you see? False premise when talking about wbw asserting wbw space. It’s up to Corvid for further enlightenment for you.
make that #2, not #3. I was going to make the second paragraph point 2 but decided it was part of the first one.
… Did I miss something?
Also, I don’t think there’s really a need for a distinction between “white at birth” and “black at birth.” Short of Michael Jackson’s skin treatments, which was a drastic medical intervention for an autoimmune disorder he had (or so I’ve heard), there is currently no possible way to “change races.”
Okay, I am sorry. No offense was intended with that. The usage was just an impulse of convenience, given I was bandying about fab and mab, as well. I guess my rationalization at the time was, your skin color, is as “set” by birth, the same as your sex. I am a total newb at politics, so, please do correct me if I am wrong or mabtastic.
I’m a trans woman, married to a
ciswoman. My thoughts on encountering this article were not printable. My wife, however, had what I think is an interesting insight:Much of what you write seems to contain an underlying assumption that certain behaviours amongst trans women are “feminine”, or authentically female, and others are “masculine”, or not authentically female. You reinforce that view in this article, particularly with your closing remark.
This is ultimately self-defeating though; your apparent quest for authenticity or at least acceptance leads you to adopt a standard which contains all kinds of really unpleasant misogynistic assumptions once you scratch the surface.
Or, to put it in a style that was more in line with my original, unprintable, response, in preaching at the rest of us about how we’re not “doing female” properly if we are assertive and stand up for ourselves, and demand our rights, you demean women everywhere, regardless of whether we are
cisor trans.Let’s deprogram this clueless Serano neophyte, shall we?
First, nice try on using ‘cis’. You are married to a woman, a wbw and human being. She is not ‘cis’ anything. Get that useless Serano programming out of your mind, if you have any desire to be taken seriously.
No, I don’t imagine they were. I have absolutely no doubt your thoughts consisted of a profane, rambling, wounded mab-pride, transplaination of doom. Your hands were shaking, You paced the floor of your flat. You frothed at the mouth. You couldn’t believe how traitorous and anti-trans group think, anti trans-politics my opinion is. Your spouse probably told you to calm down at least 100 times before you submitted your reply to me here. You think I don’t know you? The way you TGs think? Special, male-entitled male-socialized snowflakes, one and all, am I right?
Way to show that you have no idea what is going on here.
What you really mean to say is that, my taking on the perspective of radical feminism and taking the time to show that I am, is massively intimidating to you. It scares the heck out of you and every other transwoman. You rightly sense that I have my finger on the pulse of an issue that you just don’t understand, and one which you can sense absolutely destabilizes the trans position, and this terrifies you.
If you were any more transparent, you would be a window.
Let’s look at this again:
Something about this statement doesn’t jive…. I wonder what it is….
perhaps because…this statement says everything about the effects of MAAB/FAAB socialization?
You do not demand rights and inclusion. In doing so, you just totally outed yourself as a mab. What more evidence do people need, that just because it says ‘F’ on our dox, it does not mean we even understand ‘F’ never mind that, we are in no way entitled to be called an ‘F’ when we can’t even get a clue about what wbw and male-socialization, male-privilege and male-entitlement even mean?
Seriously, we should all have to take a written and oral exam administered by radical feminists before being allowed to take on women’s names, feminization procedures and get our sexes changed from M to F on our legal paperwork. If we can’t even get what Woman-born-woman space even means and respect that, we are simply not worthy of being called women.
In demanding (a MAB-tastic behaviour if there ever was one), you only demean yourself.
Consider your bullshit, called.
All due credit for the programming code needed to explain this to all you tgs, goes to miska, fcm, jade, noano, etc ty!
You’ve never met my youngest sister. She demands everything all the time. Its quite scary. My mother is awesome. She taught us all that we could achieve anything and when there was injustice it was our right to ask first, then demand. As a result all three of us are in senior professional positions in finance, education and technology.
Ah you going to tell me that my sisters and my mother are MABS?
Plastic Girl remarks:
You trans-activists all smell the same. You have no argument here. It’s all false premise. There is a difference between the demanding nature of teens of modern, consumption-driven societies who are told by the media day in and day out that they are entitled to have everything and anything, and the sense of entitlement that MABs are socialized with. You conflated consumption privilege with male privilege. Conflating these issues is just more evidence why trans activists can not explain themselves out of a paper bag.
This is one issue “my youngest sister. She demands everything all the time. Its quite scary”
And this, is a totally different issue: “My mother is awesome. She taught us all that we could achieve anything and when there was injustice it was our right to ask first, then demand. As a result all three of us are in senior professional positions in finance, education and technology.”
You reek of middle-upper class euro privilege!
After edit: Self-correction on my part. I sped past the part of ‘All three of us are’, because of my initial reading, when you stated ‘youngest sister demanding all the time’, which triggered the demanding-teen-schema in my mind. My bad! When I see a mistake, I will admit and correct it. However, consumption privilege and the demanding teens of consumer cultures issue is a valid one! Just not necessarily relevant here.
My retake on your comment.: Your adult professional sister is assertive? I hesitate to accept that your sister ‘demands’. You probably meant, (I am guessing), she asserts. Because women socialized as women, grow up knowing that, women ask–while men demand. A woman who runs around demanding things is, I am going to say, depending on the situation, going to be socially penalized for it in some way…regardless whether she was encouraged to demand by mom. Menz on the other hand, are encouraged to demand and rewarded for it.
When mtfs come along demanding inclusion, you better believe it comes across as entitled!
You still tried to conflate mab socialized male-entitlement with something….female empowerment perhaps?
Much of what you write seems to contain an underlying assumption that certain behaviours amongst trans women are “feminine”, or authentically female, and others are “masculine”, or not authentically female.
Bullhonky!
Do you know anything about the radical feminist position? Because that position states exactly that, right there: there is no authentic male or female anything, except possibly the reproductive system. “Authentic maleness” doesn’t exist anymore than “authentic femaleness” or “authentic carrot-loving-ness” or “authentic sleeps-with-socks-on-ness.”
But hey, guess what? Socially, those things matter.
This may come as a surprise to you, given that you’ve clearly never had to deal with the reality of gendering in our society—I’m being sarcastic, of course; you obviously have—but when you’re born into a body with a certain sex (or have it mutilated to fit a certain sex), that kinda determines how everyone in your life treats you.
The media targeted at you are different; the commercials targeted at you are different; the products targeted at you are different, like toys, clothes, foods, hairstyles, ad nauseum; the activities you are encouraged (expected) to enjoy are different; the path in capitalism you are expected to take is different; the options given to you for achieving your goals are different… The way you are told to be is the way you are trained to be; the way “boys” and “girls” supposedly just are shapes the way your brain even forms.
But the way you are raised also gives you a set of behaviors. Radical feminists understand this very well, that the supposed “natural” passivity of women and aggression of men are entirely socialized. There is a reason we don’t call them “young men and women” until they reach puberty, y’know; it’s because “men” and “women” are cultural products, and boys and girls are just unfinished men and women. That is to say, the behaviors of men and women are produced by socialization.
Understanding that one of the behaviors in men, taught to male children since birth, is an unwillingness to accept and respect the boundaries of your social inferiors—and often your social equals—is not in any way suggesting that it is an “authentically male” behavior.
I know this. Radical feminists know this. Since Plastic Girl is a radical feminist, and because I’ve read several of her quite enlightening articles, I am rather sure she knows this too.
Don’t assume that someone is coming from a place of biological determinism merely because it is so popular in contemporary culture as a means to excuse the status quo. It’s insulting and it reflects badly on you if you can’t conceive of your political opponents as competent.
My thoughts on encountering this article were not printable.
One of the other behaviors that male humans are currently socialized to have is the idea that their own emotions are necessarily an accurate result of reality, and that any feeling of upset-ness—pain, indignation, outrage, hurt, rejection—is necessarily important enough to warrant obedience to their wishes on the part of their social inferiors.
Especially that their own emotions are more important than their social inferiors. The discomfort of FAAB women, and the feelings of violation and worthlessness that have historically been inflicted on them by MAAB people, don’t seem to matter nearly as much to you.
Even if someone just punched you for no reason, you don’t get to kick their dog. It won’t help the fact that they punched you and the dog has always been demeaned as the “property” of humans anyway. You’re not fighting oppression; you’re just heaping more on someone who’s always been on the bottom of the heap.
!!!!
Baleeted!
You had no counter-argument of any kind! Here is another clue, wishing me luck on finding inner peace because I must be so unhappy and lost to try to see things the way radfems do, is a derail and a false assumption about my mental and spiritual health. —Plastic Girl
My wish was genuine. I’m sorry you don’t seem to think so.
Plastic Girl remarks:
When you get baleeted, it means you are not welcome here! You are almost as bad as Hexy!
You’re funny! I’m going to show this to my goth friends!
Plastic Girl remarks: Good! Maybe the white middle-class trans-goths among them will get a clue!
TL;DR. —Julie
I know that all you young people have ADHD these days. That’s not my problem, and has more to do with how many Frames Per Second life goes by nowadays. But you didn’t need to come here just to tell us all you had no interest in the topic, and no interest in accepting the truth of what I say, or even transplaining! You just wanted to see your blurt in print on my blog. In short, you wanted to jizz on me and see your jizz in the comments section, because you are too intellectually and attentively challenged to actually contribute anything of value.
I have to go deal with actual IRL matters, and I can see the comments piling up in my que. Let me make it easy on the rest of you who want to mark my territory with your trans-activist bs…
1. You can not and will never ever ever make me believe that a transwoman’s lived experience is equivalent to a woman born woman’s lived experience, which is really the ENTIRE UNDERLYING ISSUE OF MWMF.
2. The only real answer here, the only reply that matters is:
“Yes Plastic Girl, I see what you mean, and you’re right.” And then never ever take yourself anywhere near the MWMF or try to apply to be a counselor at a rape crisis center, and my job with this blog is done.
Anything else is a wounded mab transplain and I will show you how you flaunt your mab-tastic privilege, and castrate you with it in the comments section for all to see.
See what happened to Hexy to know how far this can go, and decide now, if you too, want to show the radical feminists who may or may not be reading my blog, just what a guy you really are under all your pretty make-up, pantyhose and frak-me boots. Got it?
I am a wanker, I hate you, and I have no desire to be a real woman or make a passing attempt at being a good copy of one
nor do I care to be taken seriously, by anyone, ever.
if we were on the same continent I would so stalk you
—love Julie.
Yes, I know. Plastic Girl
And so it begins!
Hi Plastic Girl! You do seem to be under attack at the moment, so you’ve certainly stirred some tempers and caught a flew blind spots. I’d just like to say that not everyone is utterly discounting everything you say. I personally have seen a lot of truth in some of the things you say, though other things I find harder to accept.
Would you say it is still worth trying to focus on one’s learned behaviors, to work on ridding themselves of MAB influence and adopting FAB instead, if they do not physically pass as well as you assume from an earlier entry? If someone wants to, and is able to, do you think they could retrain themselves even if they are, for example, only a few months into hormone therapy, or have not yet had electrolysis? I am much further than that, if it matters, though I would hestitate before saying I physically pass 100% the time.
I am not mentioning older transitioners here, as I would wonder if their longer time spent in the male role would mean the MAB-learned traits are too ingrained to be able to be unlearnt. I suspect this may be why the younger people transition, the easier they blend in, not just in physical terms.
Not everyone is against you – and I note how few of those who are seem to have taken many of your words on board beyond that you do not accept the standard narrative of ‘cis’ and ‘innate gender identity’. I feel that’s a shame. People focus on trans as if it were a religion and do not wish to look beyond that. I wish to try the best I can to do so, though it is a challenge.
Thank you,
Runic
Let me ask the question back at you, but altered. How important is it to you in your heart in adopting FAB? How much ego-sacrifice and yes, self-subjugation, are you willing to do, to prove to yourself how badly you want to get it? Another question along the same lines: What tone is the mental voice you have when you talk to yourself in your head? Think about it, because it’s important to the psychology of passing.
I feel a disturbance in the force hovering around my blog atm. I went from unheard of a week ago, to being tweeted up, Ljournaled and FBed, all day and all night long over the course of a few days.
Some people think I am Uncle Tomming myself, or that I am a troll and some have opined that I am not even trans! Which proves my assertion that people are stricken with short attention spans these days because they are not reading my stuff long enough before rendering judgment.
Thanks for reading and stopping by!
It might help them if they did some reading on who they perceive as their ‘opposition’ before they come in spouting the cultspeak we’ve all heard before numerous times.
On the point of assertion over demanding – while it is true it is considered the norm for women to do the former over the latter, I hope to see a day where a woman can demand something the same way a man does without being labeled a ‘bitch’ or being “socially penalized”. It is ridiculous that a woman should ‘ask nicely’, so to speak, and hope their request be fulfilled, while men simply ‘get what they want’ like childish spoiled brats by making it an absolute.
I cannot argue with your point about demanding inclusion. One cannot force themselves to be accepted as a member of a group, especially with that group feels strongly about their group and what membership therein means to them (the radical in radical feminism). I would never demand to be included into one of these groups, but I might ask, hope, and try to be included. I do not think this is wrong. I think “ignore it and move on” might not be as good of an approach as “if it’s important to you, earn it.” Earn it by proving you understand their message and live it every day. Not saying it, but proving it, with your words, spoken and written not screamed or thrown.
When a life establishes a boundary, it is our obligation to respect it, but we can seek admission within that boundary. I am not saying to compromise oneself. If that must be done, then ignoring it is the only choice. Consider the group not one you want to belong to and move on. But, if it is important, you feel you have a real contribution, and or could take from it a real lesson, it is only right to attempt to earn inclusion. Now who grants that inclusion, too, comes into question. If my best friend goes to MWMF, and tells me that she is comfortable with me being there, that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone there is, if the person who organizes the event is okay with me being there, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is okay. It is a delicate subject, that really doesn’t come with an easy pre-packaged answer.
Wow I really rambled there. I guess my end point is that both groups need to actually talk with one another, rather then yell at and regulate one another. If we can have real dialogue, it can go very far towards improving the world for everyone. Regardless of the adjectives placed before the word person. Because that should be everyone’s goal.
I feel the same way. They’ve worked hard to make it a success. They are free to allow who they choose – it’s their party.
Here’s my thoughts from a few years ago. I, too, was berated by darned near everybody for saying it then. It’s still true today.
You’ve probably seen me, and thought nothing about it. Maybe it was out shopping for groceries, at the mall, at a cafe. Possibly it was walking around Pike Place Market, or at the library. Don’t worry about it; I’m generally unobtrusive, rather shy and quiet.
Some of you may remember me as the nice woman who listened to you when you came out, offering advice, suggesting resources to help explain it to your friends and family. Once you were comfortable, you left, to join the party. That’s okay with me; I’m just happy to help out where I can.
I certainly don’t look gay. I learned about lesbian culture, behaviour and mores from several bi women friends and lovers. I’m usually mistaken for a straight woman, despite the Pride jewelry and tee-shirt. Even my “Lesbian Avengers” shirt isn’t enough – I look like any other middle-aged straight woman.
I’m the one on the outside, looking in but never entering. I’ve read books by lesbians, written for lesbians, both non-fiction and fiction. I enjoy the Indigo Girls, Holly Near, Dar Williams, Ferron. I’ve been to two Melissa Etheridge concerts. I’ve passed, un-noticed, among you.
You’d never guess that I’m a tranny. I’m normal-woman-size, normal-sized hands and feet, normal voice, no adam’s apple. I’m not beautiful – more like cute, warm, sweet. I was the first sorta-pre-op (I’ve had an orchidectomy, then ran out of money, career, home and health all at once) to be allowed to stay at Seattle’s women’s shelters while homeless. I was a Lesbian Avenger, till I came out one day. I ran a safe women-only IRC chat room for a year, I’ve paid my dues.
I watched, listened, read, learned. Learned that, to many (most? all?) of you, I am a pariah, condemned forevermore because I was born a woman’s soul in a male body. To you, I am a man, while you deem ftms, bearded, muscular, full of testosterone, maybe even with prosthetic pene, they are deemed women.
I don’t understand this, but it’s not my place to understand it. I accept it, and I respect it. It is, after all, your party, not mine. Enjoy it, but please, ignore the noseprints and tear-streaks on the windowpane. It’s just me.
You said, all that needed to be said, with this. This is where you should have stopped.
Then, you segued into some Oppression Olympics meets Special Snowflake™ meets See-what-a-saint-I-am-so-why-can’t-I-come-in-because-I-am-a-martyr-to-GLBT causes, self-centered and easily transparent cry for sympathy for your special specialness!
Exactly! The rest of what you said was an appeal to pity and sympathy, just because it’s you and you are so awesome and selfless! But you are still, like me, a MAB, and that means NO, because MABs will never be womyn! I know it hurts. I know it sucks. But it just is!
Just accept this. And not. “It’s so so sad we don’t get to come in, even when we are so nice!”
Yes, your comment reeks of obsession with yourself, and your body. (Like I care about how well you think you pass, and wtf does your passing privilege have ANYTHING to do with inclusion or exclusion at MWMF?) Your whole reply is addressed to rad fems. You used my blog to publicly cry about your wounded mab pride.
You wanted to get graded on your past heroics and you seem to truly think that that alone can or should buy you acceptance to a five-day festival when you will never pass the lack of patriarchy condition needed to gain entry. Wtf!
I can see through you, Jeannette, and so can they!
This is why I commented. I agree with a whole lot of what you say, but you lose me in some points, like when you say “you will never pass the lack of patriarchy condition needed to gain entry.” This means that to be a woman, you have to have never been a man. This means that women are defined by what they aren’t, rather than what they are, and more troubling, who women are is dependent upon who men are. This argument is very anti-feminist and anti-woman.
We all know patriarchy can be insidious. It hates women, this includes every type of woman. If feminists begin to say that certain types of women are not valid, not enough, that certain conditions can make them less female than other women, then those in power will see this. This will be very easily illuminated and used against all women. I’m sure you can picture it “feminists exclude trans women, because they have characteristics that disqualify them, discrimination is okay as long as undesirable characteristics exist.” Patriarchy will co-opt anything and everything a feminist does, and turn it against them whenever possible. It will be much harder to fight oppression when the men in power know that oppression can be justified by certain conditions.
When a woman to demands a woman’s only space, she separates herself from oppressive culture and becomes safe. When she forbids men from entering, that is not discrimination, men do not share the mission or understanding, they are not part of the group, they don’t have a right to membership. To deny a woman, any type of woman, because her experience of womanhood is different, is necessarily exclusionary. This too can be acceptable, and should be respected, but it is still discriminatory. And this will be highlighted by patriarchy and used against women.
See, I told you, I tend to ramble, sorry about that, I just have a lot of thoughts and because I cant talk in person with you I tend to try to say them all at once because I think it might better explain what I’m trying to say.
I still have a dick and I can’t stop sticking it into Plastic Girl.
Also. I am a stalker. And a rapist. (see, unwanted penetration)
I have no respect for the word, “No”. I have no respect for the wishes of anyone but myself. I have nothing cogent to say at all. I am completely obsessed with Plastic Girl! Did I mention also, that I am MAAB?
XY socialized all the way! I can’t stay away!
I need my testosterone levels checked.
Plastic Girl remarks: Well no shit, Hexy! Duh! When I saw that you really didn’t understand WBW, boundaries, or space-entitlement, and that you insisted that you were some kind of *Che Guevara trans-activist, your doom was foretold!
It’s very obvious that the subtlety of feminist politics is going right over the heads of 99% of you prideful, egotistical wanna-be women. And if you insist and I mean really insist on showing Real Women™ how completely clueless you are, you are more than welcome to add your dried-out carcass alongside Hexy’s, as I line my web with case studies that more or less prove exactly why these feminist’s concerns are valid!
You are doing activism WRONG!
*Another lesson for you, Hexy. Che Guevara was a dood with a dick, and he carried around a symbolic one! You really do not get women at all!
Your blog is good! I’m very surprised about those critical thoughts by a transwoman.
Keep going! :-)
Thank you!
Forgive me if this has been resolved elsewhere, but:
In light of the above, how do you consider the use of women’s restrooms by transwomen? I know it’s not an apples for apples comparison, though I think perhaps that many women see transwomen using women’s restrooms as an even greater invasion than attendance at a festival.
I’m not trying to make a point, just interested.
Sure.
I wanted to make a post about this issue, once I felt safe enough with my words to. Because while they are not apples for apples, they are truly linked. Crystal Shadow, and now you, have jumped me to it :) That’s fine. We can have that chat, right here in the comments.
In answering you, I will try to be as plain-spoken as I can. I don’t know who is reading my blog. I am not experienced in articulating my politics in print. There are a lot of ways to get tripped over these issues, so bear with me if I am clumsy. (I reserve the right to edit my reply if I see something mabtasticly wrong with it later).
……..
I yanked my reply to you, Mike, and turned it into a post !
Hope that answers you. Thanks for commenting! Feel free to do so as well, on that post.
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School is back in session!
Commenting is now OPEN.
Wow. This is the first time I’ve ever run across someone who naturally ended up believing the same things I and my roommate did about the trans community. So much of what you say here resonates with me, and you see so much of what I do. I’m genderqueer, and I’ve felt alienated by the “trans community” for about as long as I knew about it; I don’t feel either masculine or feminine (or neuter!), so where is my place in an activist paradigm that allows automatic/assumed gendering as long as a privileged few can object, even encourages it so that the same privileged few can be assumed to be the gender/sex role of their choice?
And what is so hard, anyway, with just leaving someone alone? Why is it such a threat that WBW/FAAB women want a little time and space of their own? My own reaction was the same one as yours, just about verbatim: unwanted penetration. I don’t know how I’m not supposed to connect the sputtering, self-aggrandizing indignation of transactivists at FAAB women actually defining their own boundaries with the entire history where FAAB women have routinely been assaulted, humiliated, raped and killed not just to break down an individual woman’s boundaries, but to spark a keep-your-head-low survival insinct in all of them.
I got ridiculed on a transactivists’ blog for posting a comment to that effect; apparently, that history of minimization and unwanted penetration—and an expectation of respect and basic fucking decency—doesn’t matter anymore when you’re talking about the right of male-socialized MAAB women to enter places they are not welcome.
Thank you for being here. Thank you so much.
By the way, I found you off Jade Hunter’s blog through your… um, I don’t even know what to call it, since Hexydezimal didn’t actually seem to be responding to your posts; it was like zie (?) was having a completely different conversation with a completely different person. I’ve had the same experience too, but it’s so disorienting to see it play out with two different people. You keep thinking, “Wait, did I miss something here? Did something get deleted? Is that person over there speaking in code or something?”
Zeir obvious contempt for you really pissed me off. “Your hatred will never be returned,” my fucking arse.
right?
But, didn’t you get the memo? That is the much-vaunted “cis” female-privilege you are criticizing so harshly there! :P
As one of my other commenters, Satinmill pointed out aptly out in a similar situation here involving H, “it boggles.”
I enjoyed reading your post. Thank you so much for visiting, Savage Rabbit, and for reading my humble sharings, and for commenting! Please feel free to do so, anytime.
:)
Oh, hey, I’d no idea that living in fear of sexual assault, unwanted pregnancy and forced birth, and total invalidation and dismissal of your self by the male culture was privilege! Now everything is clarified: transwomen are just campaigning for the privilege of being able to honestly say that they’re oppressed, too!
Those darn selfish wimmins, whoops I meant cis wimmins, keeping all that delicious terror and trivialization to themselves!
On the topic of Hexydezimal, you might want to Goodsearch up the Halcyon site on clinical narcissism. It’s not nearly as boggling when you’ve got a background in it; my mother was a clinical narcissist, and she would do a lot of the same things, especially the whole “having a conversation with someone else” thing. There’s some disconnection in narcissists’ heads where they can only see this completely self-contained fantasy/inner-reality in which they are never responsible for other people’s pain or choices they don’t like. It seems to be specific to narcissists, too, not just a wounded-MAAB reading comprehension impairment where a MAAB person will lose the empathy necessary to understand the argument someone is actually making; narcissists will just get set off by one statement and ad-lib everything else.
Another thing my mother used to do (i.e. when I had contact with her) was refuse to let you leave. If you disagreed with her in even the simplest way, or if you got bored/uncomfortable and tried to leave, she would follow you into other rooms and even outside and physically block your way out. Which seems to be kind of what is going on here, so I thought I’d mention it.
My mother did the exact. same. thing.
and thank you, again, for commenting